BERT SCHIPPERS INTERVIEW

 Leah and Mike met with Bert Schippers, a former Scientologist, who was a major donor to the Seattle Ideal Org Program.  

Bert - How are you?
Leah - I'm good, good.  I know you had a little bit of a concern in doing this interview, so, because you feel like, looking back on it now, like what was wrong with me?  Why did I do all of this?  Why was I at it so long?  Why was I that dumb? 
Bert - "so stupid" - He was a Scientologist for 23 years, "my then wife and I were one of the top five active contributing Scientologists in the field." 

There are OT (operating Thetan) Levels to the "Bridge" which Scien-tology defines as "knowing and willing cause over life, thought, energy, space and time."  Bert was on OT Level 4.  It took him 15 years - 17 years to get to OT IV.  It took a lot of money going up the bridge, about $750,000, maybe a little more.  

Bert - I still feel stupid and totally taken advantage of.  We felt we were helping.  But, I mean, many times, I hated donating the money, because we were borrowing it, usually. 
Leah - Here is a man, pretty well off, having to borrow money to build these big fancy buildings that are servicing no one. 
Mike - Bert, you were promised that you would be prominently displayed as a founding contributor or whatever for this building. 
Bert - "Right!  Anyone giving a donation of at least $5,000 dollars names would be on a plaque of the building."  Bert and his wife Lynne donated $300,000 and their names were not put on the plaque. They were the #5 contributors.
Leah - So, why? (weren't their names put on the plaque?)
Bert - A couple of friends of mine, Tony and Mary Jo DePhillips, became unhappy with the church, and they resigned.  they sent a letter to the church saying, "We resign."   And -- and they kinda wanted to go away quietly.  And, um, they Church doesn't really let people do that, and they were declared as suppressive persons. (They were Bert's best friends)  When someone is considered a suppressive person, you are not to have any more to do with them. They are enemies of the Scientology.  Of course he wasn't going to disconnect from them. 
Bert - In 2008, I achieved OT IV.  One of the most degrading period of my life, and when I was done with OT IV, I said to myself, No more, I'm going home...and I am never going to get audited again.  But I only said that so to myself.  Because to say that to somebody else, would be dissatisfaction.  
Leah - You couldn't even say that to your own wife.
Bert - So, I pretended to be a good Scientologist still, and embarrassingly I -- we still donated money to the Ideal Org and other groups.  I was just not going to go back for services any more.  And, uh, then the Truth Run Down came out. 

In 2009, the St Peters Times published an extensive series "The Truth Run Down on Scientology.  "High ranking defectors say Scientology's leader enforces loyalty with beatings and bullying." 

Bert - Tony and Mary Jo were exposed to that.  They read the series, and we all were shocked by the allegations. And we started looking in to that information and discussing things and at some point, it became safe to tell my wife that I was no longer going to go back for services in that Church. 
Leah - Bert, after reading that article did you believe it? 
Bert - at first I didn't believe it.  How could a leader of an ethical church, how could a leader beat people?  I was kind of iffy on it, but then my wife Lynne, she decided to look at what the church's response was, to that.
Leah - What was the Church's response?
Bert - Yelling - yelling and screaming and she looked at that stuff and she was like, OH! If that is the church's response, there's something to this. 

Also in 2009, a Scientologist's spokes person Tommy Davis responded to the allegations made by Marty Rathbun in the series, The Truth Run Down on Scientology.  
Tom Davis - Marty Rathbun, he's the one saying that David Miscavige  beat these people, and he's saying David Miscavige was beating the very same people, that he was beating,...(Mike Rinder, Marty Rathbun and others were ordered by Miscavige to beat people.) 
Bert - That kind of opened the door -- it was like, "Wow, something is wrong here."  And then we just started the process of pealing back the truth.  It was a difficult thing to go through about this organization that you're in, and its not that you necessarily believed everything that you were reading, but so many of the things matched you own experiences and -- and how you were treated in different things that had gone on.  OH! NO!, oh no we've been duped. 

There is a Freeloader's Debt Retroactive billing for all Scientologists for auditing and training received while in the Sea Org.  It can run into tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars.  If a Scientologist leaves they still owe for back services and the fees have to be paid for the members to get back into the good graces of the Church.  Bert's Step-son and daughter in law owed those debts.  The daughter in laws debt was about $104,000 and his step-son Danar's was about $53,000.  Bert and his wife wanted them to be part of the family, so Bert and Lynne on top of paying for their Scientology counseling, on top of giving $300,000 for their church's building of the Ideal Org, the good people that they are, paid for the Step-son and daughter-in-law's Freeloaders debt.  Long story short, after Bert and Lynne left Scientology, the stepson and wife disconnected from them.  At first they were making small payments to Danar's mom and step-dad for paying their debt.  When they left Scientology the kids disconnected from them and hasn't spoken to his mother in 6 years.  Bert wasn't hassled or harassed, didn't get emails or followed, as others have been. 

I wish I could get down all of these interviews, but it is to big of a chore.  Please go and watch, Leah Remini's video on Netflix "Leah Remini's: Scientology and the Aftermath.  It is an eye opener.  I pray to God that he will continue to guide me with writing these articles about the Church of Scientology and what it is truly like.  There are abuses going on and imprisonment of anyone who questions Scientology.  Many have left after realizing what the Church truly is and how David Miscavige is out of control.  We need to get the word out that this isn't a church, its a very evil cult.  Not all ex-members went through the beatings, and mistreatments, stalkings and such, as many have.  Some ex-member are shocked to read the articles from newspaper on the allegations against David Miscavige and his cruel beatings on executive members.  Many are out billions of dollars for buildings or acquiring large buildings for Scientology Orgs, that stand empty.